The Kindness of Angels, Materialists & Strangers: Tibetan Book of the Dead – Ep. 245
Opening with an extended message of gratitude to modern scientists, Professor Thurman in this episode explores the power of kindness and the centrality of compassionate wisdom in transformation through reading key passages from the miss titled “Tibetan Book of the Dead”.
Robert A.F. Thurman gives a close line reading and recitation of his classic translation of the “Tibetan Book of the Dead” for listeners of all faiths, backgrounds or experience. Using stories from the Nalanda tradition’s Tilopa and from his time studying with Geshe Wangyal, Tara Tulku, and His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, Bob Thurman discusses the value of positive intention, life-affirming action and supportive behavior during the death process and in our daily lives.
This episode includes an in depth teaching on Buddhist Bodhisattvas and angelic beings and responds to questions about the ethics of the art of dying.
Recorded during the on-going Tibet House US | Menla Online “Bardo” teachings.
To learn more about Robert A.F. Thurman’s new audio book version of “Liberation Through Understanding in the Between: Tibetan Book of the Dead” by Penguin Audio, please visit: www.bobthurman.com.
The Bob Thurman podcast is produced under a Creative Commons Non-Commercial, No Derivatives License through the generous support of its listening audience and the Tibet House US Menla membership community. To learn about the benefits of membership please visit: www.tibethouse.us.
The songs “Trance Tibet” & ‘Dancing Ling’ by Tenzin Choegyal from the album ‘Heart Sutra‘ (2004) by Ethno Super Lounge are used on the Bob Thurman Podcast with artist’s permission, all rights reserved.
Bob Thurman 01:16 If you think about, you know, we can, thank the kindness of and the great gift of the materialist scientists. Even though I refute their pretend to reject the existence of the mind and former and future life, et cetera, and the continuum of mental energy, even though I do, I deeply respect and admire them and their reductionism gives us a model plate of something very amazing that we can do where you can meditate about yourself.
And you can first recognize that you think you're a flesh and blood skeleton, upholding muscles and tissues and nervous system and chakras inside, and brain and et cetera, et cetera, and limbs and digits and so forth.
And that's you. But then you stop to think, well, wait a minute. If I went to a physics class biology class, there would be all these cells and the microbiome has like a billion people hanging out!
Bob Thurman 02:19 So what I, this is me. I mean, it's like a huge seeding community. Talk about community and then, okay, forget the biologist head for the physicist.
Then wait there's molecules and the cells are made up of molecules. Then the molecules have atom and atoms have 10 there's DNA molecules. And then the there's RNA, DNA and all kinds of codes, completely invisible to me. And then, then the atom itself is only a little nucleus. And then it has our little electrons spinning way out in the bleachers, far away from the nucleus on home plate. And so it's mostly empty space for things buzzing around in them. That's what is really me. And then even they threw it into the cyclotron C electronic Sellerator and it exploded. And then they said that the uncertainty principle, there's nothing objective there at all. And then, but wait, maybe there is that they did say they don't say there's nothing, actually.
Bob Thurman 03:20 They just said they couldn't find anything. And they're looking even cause a disruption in whatever it may have been objectively there. So they didn't, it would say that because obviously nobody's going to find nothing there. They just didn't find what they were looking for on there. They're a little bit nowadays re railing about how they found the Higgs bows on, but they didn't find that they infer something from some explosions and patterns and so on. They didn't grab a Higgs bows on it and bringing it out and put it on, slammed it on the laboratory table, no way. And then there's all this dark, dark metal. So point is we can do it head reductionism, and then we can reach a place though, where we are just pure light. We already are light. We are light.
Bob Thurman 04:10 And remember the light is not a particle light is just every, and it's everywhere. And that's what we are because there's no room for anything other than that, actually really just light. And then we are our miss knowing, carves it into different things or our resume, or our awareness of other residual interconnection with others who are ms. Snowing. And we carved that into two different forms of light. And then they themselves make themselves ever more course set and solid in order to feel secure. Although that's having the opposite effect. In fact, they're feeling less secure by doing that, but they do it because they, it makes them think they're going to be secure. And, uh, but we are already light. In other words, that's true. That's a really good meditation. You can do that anytime again. Okay. Okay. Hey, number one, if you have not recognized the clear light by remembering what we have already said from now, your sense of your body from the preceding life will become vague.
Bob Thurman 05:14 And your sense of your body of the emerging life will become more distinct. Then you will feel sad and think I am suffering. So now I will seek whatever body comes along. And then you get really, you get really maybe dreaded to sell yourself a little too cheap. Then you will move toward whatever appears gradually in uncertainly and the six lights of the six realms will Dawn remember those Dell lights of different colors, --
-- the realm towards which evolution impels your rebirth, we're doing most clearly for you. Hey, knowable one. What are the six lesson? Listen to me. What are those six slides? The dolt white light of the gods will Dawn and also the red light of the Titans or the empty Gog. Ah, the blue light of the humans. I'm so happy about that. I love that. That's the blue light of medicine, Buddha, and it's the blue light of doctor who's Tardis.
Bob Thurman 06:13 If any of you are lucky enough to have encountered dr. Who the time machine, when you look at it from outside is the London police box with a whirling blue light. It goes like that. It's a blue light blue light is really great. And then, and the indestructible drop is blue and the mother's is red and the father's is white. And the indestructible drop is blue. And the blue is a very dark blue and there's really the dark lights. Imminent state is like blue. Also. I just said, her channel is blue. Oh, unfortunately it's a delusion. And unconsciousness is blue. It's a dark, dark blue, blue, black, like blue, like Parker's blue, black ink, the green light of the animal, the yellow light of the Brayton and the dull smoky light of the health. That's really the yellow of the printer. That's really cool. It's like, that's cool.
Bob Thurman 07:07 You know, the glows bar, you know, the miser, you know, everything's cool. You know, so the yellow light, I like yellow too much. I correct myself. I'm fond of that color, but I think I'm a Leo, although some data, because Charlotte you're told me, you're not really a Leo, you're a really a cancer. So you should always wear a blue, not red and orange. Whereas my blue shirt, I forgot to wear, I agreed. And actually, okay, okay. The green light is what animals that's okay. And the blue line of the humans animals, if it maybe it's an animal, it could be some humans pet all these moved on. These are the six lights. So your body's color will become that of the light of the realm of rebirth. Hey, normal one at that time, the essence of the instruction is very important. Contemplate the particular light that arises as the Lord of great compassion. Bob Thurman 08:03 When the light arises holds authority, it is the Lord of great compassion. This is the extremely profound key of instruction. This is crucial to block rebirth. So in other words, instead of thinking, Oh, I've seen a green load, I'm going, might be an animal. Which animal do I want to be? Well, I think I'm a Leo in my birth sign, so I, okay. I guess I'll just be aligned and ha if I'm a cancer. No, I don't want him here. Crap. I don't like seafood. No, no, no. Well maybe that's good. I'll be in long lift crab. I never mind. But the point is, instead of doing
that and caving in to whatever color light, even in case you couldn't remember that, or you hear that they're your friend, your companion to read it to you, tell it to you. So you think no, this light is Buddha because the Lord have great compassion. I will look at this for our NGOs in different forms to all the realms held animal pray. It's done everywhere. And he has a way of teaching, whoever they are to get out of there and become Buddhas. And, uh, you know, they have in the, in those books of them, those paintings of the wheel of life, wheel of existence, they, um, they always have a little Buddha of different colors holding something and going to teach all the different animals and beings, not just to humans.
Bob Thurman 09:25 Okay. It's crucial, crucial to block rebuild, meaning to block just like impulse drawn rebirth, right? Again. And even if you haven't yet succeeded in completely becoming conscious of all the unconscious drives and instincts and therefore have not become self-conscious at the level of the Moonlight space, sunlight space, dark light space, and free of the 80 instinctual surges, the 80 instinctual patterns. Even if you have knocked to some degree, a little bit, that you have a, then you can say that color is <inaudible> and you can love the color and you can end the Buddha of that realm. Of course, since they're trying to help the beings get out of that realm, they will help you block going into that realm on just raw impulse. And they'll put you back into a multi optional place. They'll try to, you know, with whatever huge. And then they have actually rather competent energy.
Bob Thurman 10:28 Again, they're not, I'll nip it in, but they have competency again, me --
-- ditate long and carefully that whoever your architect, David, he is he or she appears like the magic illusion lacking intrinsic reality. Also this is called the pure magic body. Then contemplate that architect deity as dissolving from the edges inward and enter the experience of not holding rigidly to the insubstantial. The clear light of voidness there, don't try to hold onto the clear light avoidance, which is said, don't try to rigidly, let yourself melt into it. Rather again, contemplate that as the archetype deity, again, contemplated as clear light that's meditating, David and clear light in alternation that let your own awareness dissolve from the edges for space pervades, that awareness pervades, where awareness pervades let the reality body pervade enter comfortably in Judy experience of the steep ceaseless non-proliferation of the reality body. But that means you have to see all the differentiated and prolific already perforated things as non proliferating, because all of them being non dual from ultimate reality, clear light of the void.
Bob Thurman 11:46 So although they, you shouldn't see all the differentiated detail, they all are just that newness or suchness. That is, they are non dual with alternate voidness. And yet the voidness allows you to see them actually, rather than blocks you from seeing them by the, what you're temporarily did when you were seeking voidness by examining them. But now when you don't bother, you're extending them too much for this presents themselves to you like the movie, the screen, when you analyze the image on the screen, and then you maybe get down to where really it's a white screen, you know, that'll be its reality and you will ignore the flickering lights coming from the projector. But then once you do that, then you see the flickering lights again. But now, you know, completely every image that you see is just on the screen, you know, so there's no division between the blank screen and the image at some it's equivalent to that, right.
Bob Thurman 12:46 That's really cool. And every, and therefore then they, they, and they're there for them. The two wisdoms, which this relates to the mystery of the exchange of <inaudible> between being in the center or being in the East of these high McDonalds. One of them is the mirror wisdom, which is formed. And one of them is the ultimate reality perfection wisdom, which is somehow being one with the clear light, right? That is all perfect. But those two squeeze you in between the non-duality of those two are really key because when you see form, the danger would be that you would think it was really the form, but no, because it's in the mirror of the ultimate reality perfection in the mirror surface, it's on, it's a reflection on the mirror surface of the ultimate reality perfection. And the two are the same. You fall. So format and consciousness in that sense, all become the same for matter is voidness ordinances matter. Bob Thurman 13:45 That's really nice. I like that. That's great. Okay. So, Hey, Nobel one, if you have, Oh, I did this. Oh yeah, no, no, this is, I did. If you have, this is now called, blocking the door of the womb. If you have not understood. Now, I shouldn't say that around this time, if you're heading for human and let's pray each of us about all of the others here, that we're all going to head for new human, whenever it happens, may it be for a long time from now, but we're going to end. We are going to be in a really good social circumstance. We're going to be in a really good neighborhood. And then we're going to be near the Dharma. And we were going to be some kind of good Dharma and we're going to be, we're going to have leisure and a, and a decent situation where we can be educated and we can figure out, and we can not accept people telling us that we can't understand ourselves or the world.
Bob Thurman 14:39 I have to just rely on their authority. And we will seek our own wisdoms authority about things. May we pray that that happens? So all of us and, uh, and then if that is the case, then you are, you're not stampeding down into the grand river. You know, Velt, you know, uh, in Africa, instead you are cruising down fifth Avenue, park Avenue, Shaun dailies, or <inaudible> or wherever, you know, it is, or in some beautiful countries tied or not, or not Tibet under communism, but free Tibet. Yeah. Nepal, Bhutan, whatever, uh, or India or whatever you were, have the af --
-- finity for. And then we're cruising along. And then it's a little bit because we've become aware of couples getting it on which stage to do who, and they are gathered in large numbers. They privately in their private chambers. They do 10 now and then to get it on during certain age when they're fertile.
Bob Thurman 15:48 And we, we have inventory, we have like a shopping. It's like a mall of, of bees. They say like a more lots of them getting it on. So don't, don't be so scared of erotica because this is what consciousness is like, why one is attracted to the whole door. It isn't one. It's not just necessarily just attracted to a womb if you're a male. Yes. But not to be reborn, to enjoy sexual union. And, and if you're going to be, if you're a hate gravitating toward being a male, and if you kind of, you can lose the dad, I actually don't need the debt. And if you're a female opposite, so there is an edible and electronic crisis in this moment in the Bardo are, they're not dwelling on too strongly, but it's there. And so the, the key there is you see, to whatever degree you can be free of just pure impulse.
Bob Thurman 16:49 However, let's say the certainty you are about people's love me. I'm sorry to be blunt like this, but this is the case you then to whatever degree you are, then you might not just be dragged into the first couple. You follow me. You might not by luck by your own lust. Kendra resist your own impulse. Just your first thing. You see, bam, you're there, you know, and then you're stuck there on him. Cause then you can't get through the womb. You say, if you hit right when white seed red rag red seed, which amalgamates makes the egg fertile, it should say so white seed, red fertile essence in the AE and fertile essence in the white seed. And then your blue drop pan is crafted. Then it can move further. And then you're out of the Bardo and you will, you die blissfully because you enter into the bliss of the union of the two.
Bob Thurman 17:45 And even if they are psychologically PR problems about it, and can't really males and don't really have that much fun. If they have enough fun to bring the true seeds together, then subliminally their body is trying to melt. And so there's an orgasmic doorway open and you, and you fully go into that. You completely melted that lose consciousness you faint with, with bliss, but, and then you're stuck there. And as a zygote, it's really interesting. So closing the womb door is in this context, I'm sorry that they don't, they're being more genteel about it, but that's the case. That's the case. Hey, number one, if you have not understood from the above or by this time by power of evolution, the vision will arise of you're proceeding upward on the level or downward with head hanging. Well, this is a little bit of going further back. Bob Thurman 18:42 Now. I meditate on the Lord, have great compassion. Remember him or his female embodiments, Taras. And so on. Then, as you already explained, you will have visions of hurricanes, blizzards, hailstorms then's form, and being chased by many men. And you will need, seem to escape those without merit will seem to escape to a miserable place, but those with narrowed would seem to escape to a happy place at that. That that's the ones who are down on fifth Avenue or whatever. At that time over one, all the signs will arise showing the continent and the place where you will be very born for this time. There are many profound keys of instruction. So listen carefully, even though you did not recognize freedom from the previous keys of orientation here, even those of the weakest practice can recognize freedom through the following keys. So listen, now here, the method of blocking the womb door is very effective and important. There are two methods of blocking that door, blocking the entering person and blocking the room door entered first, the instruction for blocking the enterer.
Bob Thurman 19:57 And this is back to them, something Mahamudra, I think, Hey, Nova one, you named so-and-so clearly visualize your architect. Daisy appearing like magic without intrinsic reality. Like the moon in water. If you're unsure about your arguing architect, Daisy, then vividly envision. Avalokiteshvara the Lord of compassion thinking he is the Lord of great compassion. Then dissolve the architect from the edges and contemplate the void clear light transparency of ultimate non perception. That's complet --
-- e open mind, not grasping anything that is the profound key using it. The Buddha and the womb will not be the Buddha said, I'm sorry using it. The Buddha said the womb will not be entered so meditate in that way. But if this still does not blocked away and you were just about to enter a womb, there is the profound instruction to block the door of the room, about to be entered.
Bob Thurman 20:58 So listen, repeat after me the following from the root versus the six between. Okay, so then read this again and again, memorize it if possible. Hey know, when the existence between dawns upon the, or becoming between you can change as you like, Hey, now when the becoming between dawns upon me, I will hold my wheel with mine doing pointed and increased forcefully the impulse of positive evolution blocking the wound, or I will remember to be revolved. Now courage and positive perception are essential. I will give up envy and contemplate all couples as my spiritual mentor, father and mother. So there are, you know, if, if, if you're cultivating all couples, you already in that thing of you're cruising and you're seeing all these couples making love, but then you project upon them. If you're able to that they are Buddha. Mr. And mrs. Buddha basically as connected with your guru, if you're in Tibet, you know, some sort of initial kit and because to bed, we got to be locked out after some centuries, then, you know, in a way you you're, if you would like to be part of them.
Bob Thurman 22:19 Yes. So you would go toward them, but you won't be drawn by just pure loss for them because you will feel in their field, that's not appropriate. And then therefore you won't be so angry with the same sex. One, if you're going to be male or female, the mother or the father, or the mother respectively, you won't be like the normal, you know, by, you know, like, uh, ambivalent, uh, being gendered beam, he really said, and you won't push in some sort of a way he'll be very discerning about you'll be able to, it gives you the freedom by blocking the womb door, to choose where you want to go and not just be driven by desire. You know? So that's really critical, you know, that's, that is a great preset. And if you hit it and of course you do that. If you're a tantric practitioner, if you have ever been one of the things you do once you're initiated.
Bob Thurman 23:19 And as a preliminary, as part of the key part of the preliminary is you envision that every other being that you see is a Buddha. And so you were surrounded by all enlightened beings. You don't see others that some unenlightened, poor thing, you see everyone as the Buddha, and then you rationalize with your, to purify your it's called a purification of perception practice. And you were rationalized what, well, wait a minute. That cockroach is not a Buddha. Oh, no way, come on. It's cockroaches around there on the floor or whatever, you know? And, uh, and, uh, I have to, like I injected from, from the place. Uh, but, uh, no, the cockroach is being a border. It's showing it's tough as a cockroach to sort of, for me to overcome my revulsion against them. And to get me to think about what it means to take the life of another being even a cockroach.
Bob Thurman 24:12 And so give me pause about self-righteous stamping on the cockroach, et cetera, et cetera, and really embracing those life form. And they're just therefore manifesting as that, but it's actually a Buddha cockroach. So Buddha Roach. And so that's called purification of perception. And when you do that, you really can get where you see people like that. You know, like the Teravata has this, you know, this is general Buddhist practice. At first, it seems like counts. How can I see that? But actually it does get like that they have something called the <inaudible> in Sanskrit and in Carly, I think Kisa <inaudible> I think, see they don't like R T S N as multi cause. It's a more of a cloak closer to colloquial language poly. So kit, kit, SIADH something like that. I forgot. I forget the exact word, but could snipe out on a curse. That means a totality.
Bob Thurman 25:14 So this is the media of totalities and these are attainable. There's utilization practices done by dualistic Buddhism to develop your concentration. And for example, you say you visualize all beings as skeletons so that you kind of cultivate an x-ray vision. When you see somebody, you only see them as their skeleton, like a w --
-- alking skeleton. And when you achieve that as a totality medium, then you really do see every being like that. You don't see their flesh and blood. You just see their skeleton. So everyone was like a walking skeleton to you. And, uh, as long as you stay in that meditative state of that totality, or they have like color totalities, everything is a blue color. So then everything will, you will get one point of where everything will seem blue. Everything is, um, earth. You will get where you'll see everything as made of earth.
Bob Thurman 26:17 And as the earth, everything is fire. Everything is wind. Everything is water. In other words, you have visualizations where you visualize in such a way and, and align it with your one pointedness, and then you will see everything the way you intend to. And you imagined you imagine it, and you actually seem objectively like that. So if you do that, even in Terra Awada then if you visualize everybody as a manifesting a form of a being to be around you, to get you to wake up about your true nature, you will see him like that. It will totally well. And that will be that's one of the important ways of beginning to, and of course the ultimate thing is, and in time is to see yourself as a lichen and imagine yourself as enlighten, which is very hard to do so imagining everyone else that's like that, is there a way of getting there as part of the practice, there was the four or five purifications or impurities,
Bob Thurman 27:24 And, um,
Bob Thurman 27:28 It's amazing artful, um, you know, uh, deployment of the fact that like in a dream where our dream embodiment is actually, uh, creating the environment within which the dream event is happening based on what different environments that we saw when awake or saw or imagined when awake. And so now at this stage, we're getting where we do that. And in the outside the matrix of the dream, outside in the matrix of the Bardo, which is a little bit more solid, more solid energy playing then the dream and eventually, and the waking state, wait, maybe I'm Buddhists. So,
Bob Thurman 28:19 Hey,
Bob Thurman 28:20 Now, so giving up NWC, Hey know, when the existence between dawns upon me, I will hold my will with mine. One pointed and increased forcefully the impulse of positive evolution. Now courage and positive perception are essential. I will give up and, and contemplate all couples as my spiritual mentor, father and mother, repeat this loud and clear and stir your memory. It is important to meditate on its meaning and put it into practice as for its meaning quote. Now, when the existence between dawns upon me, unquote, means that you are now wondering within the existence between the, the becoming between the sign of that is when you're looking at water, you will not see your reflection. You have no shadow, you have no substantial flesh and blood body. These are signs that your mental body is wandering and the existence between now you must hold one pointed in your mind to unwavering willpower. Bob Thurman 29:32 This one pointed wheel is of chief importance. It is like reins, who guide the horse. You're going to achieve whatever your will in tens. So don't open your mind, your negative evolution, but do you remember the teachings and instructions, initiations the authorizations and inspirations you received in the human realm, such as this great book of natural liberation to under-sending into between an intensified, the result of all good evolutionary actions. This is very important. Don't forget it. Don't be distracted. This is the exact time that determines whether you go up or you go down. Now is the time right? Indulgence and laziness definitely will bring on suffering. Now is the time when one point of positive willpower definitely brings on happiness. Hold one pointed Goodwill in your mind may sustain forcefully. The results of good action. Now is the time to block the door of the womb.
Bob Thurman 30:40 As the, as the rude verse says, blocking the womb door. Remember to be reversed. Now courage and positive perception are essential. That time is now. You should block the door of the womb. There are five methods to block the womb door, fix them well in your mind, they're indefatigable. Padma. Soundbite is he really is great. Hey, Novo one. At this time, he will have visions of couples making love. Here we are. When you see them, don't enter between them, but stay mindful. Visua --
-- lize the males and females as the teacher, father, and mother prostrate to them and make them visualize offerings, feel intense, reverence and devotion. Aim is strong-willed to request them, to teach the Dharma. And the womb door will definitely be blocked. If that does not block it. And you were about to enter the womb, then visualize them as mentor father, mother architect did father and mother or companion, Lord, father, and mother over them.
Bob Thurman 31:52 Visualized offerings from the powerful initiation, from powerful intention to receive spiritual attainments from that form, the powerful intention to receives first attainments from them. And that will block the womb door. If that does not block it. And you were about to enter a room, then third, there is the instruction for reversing. Lessen hate less than hate. There are four modes of birth, egg, birth, womb, birth, magic birth, and warm moisture, birth, egg births, and womb. Birth are alike. As before you begin to see males and females engaged in lovemaking. If you're entered the room on the influence of loss and hate, whether you reborn as a horse, a bird dog, or a human, if you're to be male, you arise at appearing to be male. You feel strong hate toward the father and attraction and lust toward the mother. If you are going to be female, you appear as a female, you feel strong, envy and jealousy toward the mother.
Bob Thurman 32:53 You feel strong, longing, and loss for the father. Conditioned by that you entered the path of the womb experience, orgasmic bliss in the center of the union, between white and red drops and made in the experience of that bliss. You faint and lose consciousness. Your body develops through the embryonic stages of custard, gelatin and so forth. Like a zygote. Eventually you will be born outside the mother's womb. Once your eyes are open, you may realize you have been born a puppy, having been a human. Now you are a dog and the dog's kennel, you suffer, or in the pigs die or in the entail or in the wormhole or in their herds of goats or cows or sheep born there. You cannot return to the human state, easily being extremely stupid in the state of delusion. You suffer various miseries. And this way you will cycle through the Hells and the pretend rooms, and we be tortured by limitless suffering. There is nothing more powerful, nothing more terrible than this allows. I lost those lacking the Holy spiritual teacher's instructions folds down this deep abyss into the life cycle. They are tormented uninterruptedly by unbearable sufferings. So listen to what I say, hold my personal instruction in your mind. Bob Thurman 34:24 And we almost reached the end of this first time over. And we will, I don't want to just rush the whole time to reach it,
Bob Thurman 34:36 Blocking
Bob Thurman 34:36 The door of the womb. I will remember to be reversed. Now courage and positive perception are essential. I will give up envy and contemplate all couples as my spiritual mentor, father and
Bob Thurman 34:51 Mother,
Bob Thurman 34:53 I was before you will have strong feelings of envy. If you're born as a male, you will lust for the mother and hate the father. If you're born as a female, you will lust for the father and hate the mother. For that time. There is this profound instruction when such less than hate rise, meditate like this. Alas, such a creature of negative evolution as myself, but wandering the life cycle under the influence of less than hate. If I still have persistent loss and hate, I want to know no end to my wanderings. I am in danger of being stuck forever in the ocean of miseries. Now I must give up lost hate, entirely allows. I must hold intensely are one. The one point it will never entertain, lost and hate the Tundra state. That's what you were saying to yourself. Now we say the Tundra stage that this meditation itself will close the door of the womb.
Bob Thurman 35:58 Hey, knowable one don't waiver. Hold your wheel. One point in your mind, even though you have done that if the womb door did not close and you were about to enter the womb, you should block the womb door by the instruction of truthfulness, magical illusion, meditate as follows male and female father and mother, the thunderstorm, the hurricane, the thunder, terrifying visions, all phenomena are naturally like magical illusions. However, they arise. They're truth, less all things that are untrue and f --
-- alse, like mirages impermanent, non re turnoff, why be attached to them, why fear and hate them. It is to see nothing as something that making something out of nothing. That's what I was saying. But then nail is all of them are, but visions of my mind, the mind itself is an originally non-existent as that magical illusion is as originally known existence as a magical illusion. Bob Thurman 37:03 So where out there do they come from? Since I never understand this in the past, I never understood this. In the past, I held the non-existence to exist. I held it untrue to be true. I held the illusion as truth. So for this long time, I wondered in the lifecycle. If I still now do not recognize the loser in this of things, I will wander even longer in the long cycle. And I would be stuck in the quicksand of various miseries. So now I will recognize all these things as like a dream, a magical illusion and echo a fairy city. And Miraj every reflection, an optical illusion, the moon in water look lacking, even in moments, truth status, definitely untrue and false angels. That's I'm transmitting dark money, dark money, which means female while they're there. They're <inaudible> and they're kind of angel and, uh, Buddhists, uh, imaginary.
Bob Thurman 38:15 Let me imagine now, the Buddhist world, and that doesn't mean they're unreal. It means that that's just an expression that I have. And like, um, we have an idea, some of us in the old days, we had more graphic than now. The idea there is such a thing as angels and, uh, Michael Gabriel do know what I mean. They are hunting national flags and okay, so that's clear enough. So Bob, then those angels, they're also in, you know, super normal beings. They're all natural, that's super normal beings who are negative. So, so they're what are called worldly, darkness and darkness. And they have to be kind of negotiated within Delta myth. And, um, they're not all positive enlightened angels, but the ones that are most important to us are the enlightened ones, what they call them <inaudible> or like visor yoga name.
Bob Thurman 39:13 So can you speak more about how the, and they're going to say that in two 40 and I did doubt, I think incredibly long and, uh, Jim Tucker's life before life, that would Tucker Jim Tucker. Thank you. That's the name? That's a wonderful one to read it. Let me put it in the homework. If you, if you have never read, you know, a N D E literature near death experience literature, which means sometimes people who clinically are pronounced dead actually for a little bit of time. And then they somehow revive in some cases from the longer time, you know, supposedly impossibly longer time sometimes in some cases. And of course there, you know, there's probably true and false within that realm, but there's a lot of that literature and it's really worth looking at. And in a sense, just getting used to the narratives and some of them are, I'm sure it'll genuine.
Bob Thurman 40:05 Some of them might be, pretend imitating somebody else who would choose genuine, but still you could use a narrative. Another useful book. My wife was drinking in that I, at first didn't like so much because it was different from the book of the dead. But, um, by Michael Newton, a psychologist, a retired psychologist, any WTO in Michael Newton. And the first book he wrote was called journey of souls and the second one called destiny of souls. And, uh, those two books create a very interesting narrative. And if you read those books, you begin to sort of get into the theme of the book, nevermind that all the time I had final point about it, but relatively speaking, and you're starting looking at life from the other side, you could say, you temporarily get a vision like that. And that's really helpful. And you're learning and see all kinds of interesting things, even though it just quite disagrees with how the thing is, although there's room in any relative, remember description of reality, there was room for other ones.
Bob Thurman 41:11 That's why there's no competition between ed and book of the dead scene, the six stages, the States and all that. It sort of pretty much presumes that people will just continue to be human, which, you know, Buddhists don't completely agree with that, but let's hope let's hope that there is a bubble like that, that is nowadays created on this planet. That's hope. And, um, uh, because it's so advantageous to be human for this --
-- in this context, rape wouldn't be blessed. No, no rape would not be blessed, but not for the person, person. They were not people horrible. It would be like dying, like being killed or being beaten or murdered. It's terrible. I don't know, is connected to murder, probably a horrible rapist, but that doesn't mean the body, the cell phones, it's a micro to micro awareness, even in a case of complete fighting and resistance.
Bob Thurman 42:10 It doesn't mean that that micro awareness is not subliminally present. It doesn't mean that the human being is an amazing being. That's all I can say. What's the process of rebirth if artificial insemination is used and even there are, you see, so the artificial insemination is used, but it goes into an alive body. And, uh, even if it's a surrogate, even if you're disseminating everything in some way in, in all the may over mating, everything and, uh, uh, you know, in the case of a double surrogate, you know, yeah, no, maybe you would to do it that way, but nevermind about how those fertility organizations, but the point is whatever level it's just cells, but those cells came from somebody and there. And some level of the micro cellular consciousness, the pure energy consciousness ma is still present in those substances. And the idea that they're just mechanical molecules and the, the whole, um, materialist worldview of it is not correct.
Bob Thurman 43:20 Actually, everything is enfolded and everything, and there's this extremely subtle energy of pure light that's everywhere. And people's consciousness already like that. Whether they know it, whether they are personally aware of it about themselves or not. And therefore, um, we can't exactly say, but there's still connection between the people who, well, maybe they had orgasms at other times, or maybe they have, you know, they're completely blocked from their own melting, by some really rigid neuromuscular, traumatic, um, trauma and Jewish, the armory as Phil hemorrhagic would call it, but there's still the cells themselves still have their own mind of their own. In some ways I think put his view would be people that have to catch an interesting quote. Would you please post it? Oh yes. Good. That's Marianne. How are you Marianne? Good. Will everyone should help Mariana? We'll try images in scary deities are very visual step-by-step clues to make they're based on Tibetan culture and people like let's see in the boat or what are clues.
Bob Thurman 44:31 Well, it depends on how, how much of a Dan Brown reader you are. And I'm following this sort of looking back into Western, um, best CA imaginary. And there, you know, the Christians had total bunch of angels in Judaism had all the terrible Zolonz and all kind of, of things, spirits and angels, old traditions had debt. And then if they got more and more into just only Allah Allah and forget about it, because we were afraid of, uh, afraid of, um, idolatries, did they end up getting where they kind of wipe out all intermediary types of angelic beings, but all cultures have them. And so you're confined, I mean, you have Saint George and the dragon, it was just, who do you think st. George's he's not like some guy who's, you know, has night duty at a pub. He's an angel and the Saint Michael and all them, they're all there they're based. Bob Thurman 45:29 So they, you know, they were the equivalent of these things in other human cultures, for sure. And, uh, if you, uh, you know, we have this most amazing generation of children and, um, and then sort of consumer cultures that say now that I don't think Western only where they have Dungeons and dragons as kids and they're, they explore the mythologies and the mythological beings of many ancient cultures become part of their game and they become familiar with them. And I bet you, uh, some kid sadly, and let's hope that has never happened, but mostly it does a little bit passes away in prematurely, Zen. Uh, they might encounter some D and D spirit, you know, from Maine Mayan culture. You never know. It's amazing actually what our modern mind is. So out of like that, but it's a very rich thing also as well. It really is.
Bob Thurman 46:28 Okay. So don't worry. So, uh, well the real, the most, any of the non-human ones avoid and any of the human ones where it says a slavery realm or, uh, some kind of like, you know, hard, terribly defective realm of whatever way famine realm bore around, avoid avoid, --
-- for sure. They're all to be the most avoided and, and, uh, go for the realms where, where you can find you can, you can live educational holistically where individualism is respected and you're not in a collectivist kind of thing. And where and where you have there. There is the teaching of liberation, whatever form. There is a goal of that. Uh, <inaudible> well, no enclosed beyond this whole thing. Very good question from Michelle. What are we aiming for beyond closing you and Dawn? The closing the wound door is about being driven just by subliminal impulse, out of your control.
Bob Thurman 47:44 You being just blown by your own lust and anger and fear. And because then you don't know where you're going to land. That's all. So you want to close the womb door and being born driven by that. Once you have closed it for the ideas, then all of that Muhammad, et cetera, finding the, you know, finding the mentor, finding the Buddha, finding liberated beings, finding Krishna, finding whatever you think as deliberate in being. And, uh, and, uh, and then there's, you want to, you want liberation from there was just to say, you want to become totally conscious of all of your unconscious impulses, so they no longer have any power over you at that point. Then you have inhabited your subtle mind, where you can live in your subtle body, and you are only the moonlit, sunlight and dark lit. And those are your three paces.
Bob Thurman 48:47 If you're known as a lot of those tantric architect, JDS have a black face or a white face and a red face, sometimes in different orders, they have red face and a white face. And, um, sometimes there are other goals and face in the back, et cetera, and our count check her case. And so, um, once you're free of being driven through the life cycle lives of suffering, where it is you versus the university. Cause there's all these things from inside that you're helpless, you've driven by. And then you've rejected to the outside, all sorts of health authorities and powers that control you and therefore you suffer. And so you want to wake up, we're aiming, always to wake up. And then once we wake up, though, I always like to make the point only to help people not be trapped in some space out situation.
Bob Thurman 49:41 And, uh, and then risk falling into, into, into animal life, you know, nonhuman animal life and, uh, through the formless realm, heavens and, um, probably because I'm such an escapist and a chicken hearted person myself, I probably am very much focused on what's on that. And I think that's a very important thing. So, so there are many books you can find Elisabeth, Kubler, Ross, uh, Ian Stevenson, all the documented cases. He has many 30 and 30 new cases of reincarnation, 20 cases of reincarnation, suggestive of acronym. It was road very academically. And, uh, and then his successor was this Richard Tucker that she, Jim Tucker, that you mentioned there life before life, someone has mentioned there. And, uh, and then there's some of those popular ones like that guy. I look at Eben Alexander's book where he's, it was a neuroscientist and he was in a lab and he died and they, and he was hooked up. Bob Thurman 50:42 So the brain was not functioning. And then he was in heaven and all this stuff. And of course they, then the neuroscientists was, he was one to consider him an arch trader and a heretic. And if they could, they'd burn him at the stake, but it's useful to read. And it's interesting. And there's other reality, somebody, she had a very kind of narrow-minded cultural thing in one way, but in another way, she had a very vivid experience of Jesus in heaven and et cetera, et cetera. And there's a lot of these accounts and you don't have to worry too much. Oh, is this fake? Or is it real, there's enough real ones that other people can imitate them and they can try to make money and be fake. You know? So the point is to get used to that narrative and then eventually you'll get used to where it becomes more normal to see that
there's going to be continuation.
Bob Thurman 51:31 And then this begins to become your common sense feeling. That's the goal, not just to be a mystical thing and the common sense. You're still surrounded by, well, to be real, let's be realistic. We're just here for now. So put, get it, get on the tube. Don't make a living will to be disconnected when you're a vegetable, if they want to or whatever, don't do that. Just keep i --
-- t in as long as possible. Yeah. Although that is the principle, actually the Buddhist one to all elements, physician, my teacher of Tibetan medicine, horrified a bunch of people at the open center in the seventies when I was translating. And he said, keep that person who's vegetative on the, on the pump pen, the tubes and the whole thing, as long as you can afford it, because although their vegetative that seems to be vegetative in the brain, doesn't seem to be active in the super subtle, deeper central nervous system brain.
Bob Thurman 52:27 They may be undergoing certain things by being still located within an human nervous system where they may be those which may be important than their future lives. So maybe if you could afford, it keeps him. Obviously I have to be practical if you're bankrupting the family and it's not the wish of the person and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He finally, after, after sticking at that, sticking to that, being the their ground, you know, that'd be the ideal. And then when the preservation of life, as long as possible is ideal, then no, of course there are practicalities that veterans are very down to earth and practical about it, but a lot of people were very annoyed about that. Thanks for all your hard work, it's impossible, blah, blah, blah, negative negative evolution means creating bad evolutionary momentum by being hating things in your mind, by feeling angry about them, by fearing them, by seeing the world as so dangerous, you have to fight and guard yourself against it and shut down again.
Bob Thurman 53:32 Don't be open to anything, stick with some fanatic narrow-minded things, et cetera, all that is negative evolution, right? Desire, hatred and delusion delusion as a sort of fanatical conviction on something that makes no sense. For example, instead of being open-minded. So those are the thing, Oh, the bodhisattva, they keep working for the city attorney. They keep returning, but they would have the ability to more consciously choose where they go. Once they get a little bit of wisdom in a life, if, but there could be a completely beginning boat is had for who then somehow died right away, just ties the bow. And then they are driven by loss, an instinct and so on. But that, that will not be lost. However, the fact that they made that bow and they will have a predilection to want to make it again. And they're coming in life, even if they're born where they don't have such a thing, and then they maybe have it in another form, you know, there might be very kind in some context or something.
Bob Thurman 54:31 There are cases in the <inaudible> where some, some, uh, a monastic teacher was teaching a bunch of labor people to be men Dickens and to drop out of their households. And he said, wait a minute, maybe that's not the right thing for these guys. Why are you doing that? Are you clairvoyant? Apparently that monk was not actually blue to his own son, cause not clairvoyant enough to know the past lives of these people, but the family here he did. So then he talked to him, something, he just interrupted that teaching. He taught them something and they all conceived the spirit of enlightenment and became bow. And again, renewed their bodhisattva affinity based on having done it in previous lives. And the guy was very impressed about that. She told the story to the Buddha and we may have reached the end of our time. Yes, we did pass. We went a little past Ted. Okay. Thank you everybody.
The Tibetan Book of the Dead
The so-called “Tibetan Book of the Dead” has been renowned for centuries as a classic of Buddhist wisdom and religious thought. More recently, it has become highly influential in the Western […]
Liberation Through Understanding in the Between: Tibetan Book of the Dead Read by Bob Thurman
PRH Audio · The Tibetan Book of the Dead by Robert Thurman, read by Robert Thurman The most accessible and informative version of the Buddhist classic available in English, with […] [more]