Celebrating Love and Poetry During the Coronapocalypse – Ep. 248
Opening this week’s episode with an introduction to the epic poem “Gita Govinda”, Robert Thurman uses the work of Jayadeva to guide listeners through the spiritual and linguistic history of India, Buddhist philosophy and the inner and outer yogic sciences.
Describing India as “the original melting pot”, Professor Thurman shares his personal reflections on the wise and compassionate perspectives and tools to be found in Buddhism on the global Corona pandemic, the climate crisis, political polarization, voter disenfranchisement and online social distancing that can empower those of any background, faith, or religious affiliation.
This episode includes: a short re-telling of the “Song of the Cowherd”, or the love story of Krishna and Radha, an in-depth exploration of the Four Noble Truths, the Eight Fold Path, and other essential concepts taught by the historical Buddha, easy to understand introductions of non-duality, karma and the subtle body systems of the inner mind sciences, and a teaching on the tenfold karmic evolutionary path found throughout Indian and Asian traditions.
This week’s episode concludes with an extended “Counting Your Blessings” guided meditation.
“Celebrating Love and Poetry During the Coronapocalypse” is a part of “Turning the Wheel of Time An Online Retreat” with Jai Dev Singh and Robert A.F. Thurman, now available online through the Life-force Academy. To learn more about this Seven Part Series, please visit: www.jaidevsingh.com.
The Bob Thurman podcast is produced under a Creative Commons Non-Commercial, No Derivatives License through the generous support of its listening audience and the Tibet House US Menla membership community. To learn about the benefits of membership please visit: www.tibethouse.us.
The songs “Trance Tibet” & ‘Dancing Ling’ by Tenzin Choegyal from the album ‘Heart Sutra‘ (2004) by Ethno Super Lounge are used on the Bob Thurman Podcast with artist’s permission, all rights reserved.
Bob Thurman 00:01:14 When I think of Jai Dev, who, because of his name, I always think of Jayadeva, who was a great poet of the, toward the end of the first millennium in India of common era or a millennium who wrote a wonderful book called poem, “The Gita Govinda”, which is a very devotional poem in a Sanskrit. And it's something very, very remarkable and it relates to the greatness of Indian culture and civilization- Why it was considered such a great prize - and so many conquerors entered India, a hundred nations, really in India and the thousand languages. I think.
Mother India is the original melting pot. It's what India ONLY basically achieved. You're doing most of the spiritual context except for a very few, usually highly endangered mystics, uh, including in East Asia. You know, the unification of the erotic, you know, love energy and the spiritual devotion to God energy really never much occurred. So they had to be suppressed in a certain way and therefore, you know, sin and, uh, and naughtiness was associated with the erotic and also in some layers of Indian religion, that's also the case, but in the main stream, move Indian religion, uh, Buddhist and Hindu and Jain non-dualism and its great period from around sixth century of the common era until the 11th century common era, not just 10th and 11th to eight people wrong, they think, you know, but the non-dual phase of that, or even starting earlier, or actually maybe Fifth century, um, I actually started originally from ancient time, but maybe expanding in the culture ever wider circles. Some few elite people knew it in ancient time, but it, the larger population was not ready for that. So we made the dualism of suppress the basic life energy connected to the erotic and procreation and keeping the family and all that.
Bob Thurman 00:03:34 And then the spiritual, which was sort of the sublimation of that as if it were opposite, uh, that was more appropriate to the larger community or by the, in the, by the Buddha's time and before the last time. And, uh, but then by this around fifth century of common era, it came out and Jaya Dave's poem is so beautiful because it's a love of Krista, but that love will appreciate that is connected to the love between Krishna and RADA, which is taught and is that kind of very erotic, beautiful, wonderful thing. And any way almost fair you can say feminist has a feminist message, which was hard to get across except in the esoteric circles in India, because it's very patriarchal and that sort of prompt generally well. And uh, so you have finally Krishna pleading with Radha to, you know, to remain in love with him and forgive him for his polyamorous behavior before.
Bob Thurman 00:04:38 Yeah. And it's a hard sell in the poem, but beautifully done, just beautiful. And of course he's, he's, he's able to do that because he's able to even abase himself to the feminine, to the goddess because he's, D-line himself. It's really, really wonderful. That's with Jaya. Dale's great point. This is the Corona apocalypse time of the Corona retreats everywhere in our trying to end this country, the United States. And, um, it's a crisis and it's a, it's a horrible time. And of course people are suffering, uh, now for sure, but, uh, but the suffering is not immediately created by the Coronavirus. The coronavirus is only hitting its sort of weak points where regular suffering is definitely going on. And actually if the coronavirus didn't hit those weak points, other things will be hitting him and terrible things will be happening to the people who are being, who are unable to defend themselves because their body is weakened by being mistreated by the larger society.
Bob Thurman 00:05:46 And they are the ones that actually who are mainly the ones who are going down, whose immune systems are weakened because the, the, their confusion level and their oppression level is such that they are vulnerable more vulnerable. So, so actually it's, we, we can use this time as a regulatory time. Of course it's still suffering, but there's suffering all the time and this is a particular type, but also it's teaching us this suffering suffering always teaches us suffering itself is in that sense. Good. And not when you suffer, if you, if you understand it, whereas if you suffer and will suffer and are resentful about it and upset and you suffer that you're suffering too much, then you don't learn anything from it. You're just mad, but God or mad with nature or your mouth, but do you hurt him? So you're mad with the government or you're mad with your neighbor or whatever you might be or men with your own body.
Bob Thurman 00:06:48 Actually, there's unfortunately, a lot of the problems that is inflicted on the, on the health of the American people are infected by bad food business, a bad agriculture business, bad. I had a bad health sickness industry rather than health industry. That's called six minutes industry. And, uh, and yet they, they love to blame us and say, Oh no, your it's your immune system is freaking out. You're having an order. And that means that's getting you to be against your own body thinking that your body is against you. And we have wonderful people like medical, medium, Anthony, William, and others reassuring us about how that's wrong actually. Then what is now thought of as is auto immune will tune with someday be understood as a product of all kinds of chemical assaults and, uh, an animal assaults which released these viruses that are there a lot.
Bob Thurman 00:07:45 There's millions of them. They're not just in one particular one, which is a bad one. That's presently hitting us, but there's like tons of them all the time. Anyway. And, and this particularly heavy one is letting us see the injustice and then the difficulties in our society, the way our way of life and letting us challenge the idea that we have been indoctrinated yet, that this is the greatest society. The greatest way of life is corporate dominated, you know, entertainment, consumer industrialization backed up who the big militarist industrialization that this is a greatest thing leftover from colonial, you know, pillaging of the whole plan actually, which was just a way of getting to know the whole planet. If finally, it will be understood in history rather than a stable thing. You never want stable and how to do it in stability about our culture. So now we are going to be growing up as a cultural, this is a strong thing in terms of 10.
Bob Thurman 00:08:50 So the first thing to understand is that going be very first, then maybe very last is that we are the happy human beings. We are the happiest. I know that's a shock. You're not used to that idea. Or you think of that, maybe I know Disney or something Cinderella, but then Cinderella's an exception, right? She's just plucked out. Cause she has a fairy godmother and a magic shoe and a pumpkin and the whole thing. But everyone Cinderella really the whole MBA is the happy life for, we were love babies. All of us loved children were born of love. We're helpless for decades, parents loss. Some are freaked out. Don't love themselves and they're not good parents, but most of them are good and we wouldn't be around to criticize them if they weren't at least somewhat good. And so we are, and then the nature of love says the nature of produces plants and plants are sitting here right now and producing oxygen for me to breathe and you to breathe.
Bob Thurman 00:10:04 And then, you know, when the virus was making it hard to breathe that, and it will kill us. If we're, if we're our immune system, doesn't know how to handle it, you know, because it's weakened and poisons and toxic toxifying, right? Bad, uh, lifestyle and, uh, you know, in harmonious and exploitative destructive most times. And, um, so, so, so, um, so we should be happy and we are happy. J David is happy. I'm happy. I mean, I'm also miserable. So don't get frightened. You know, I'm miserable because others are miserable and all of us feel that because we're all interwoven with everybody else. There are no people that we are isolated from. You know, those who receive, who are deeper on the heart, on the, on the short end of the steak or the sharp end of the climate injustice stick, they're us, you know, their misery and the ghetto or the slum or the homeless shelter is our misery.
Bob Thurman 00:11:08 We feel it. We can go into big fancy Pentagon or, you know, I mean a duplex or triplex on top of some big tower, somewhere in the fancy area of the city. And then we just feel anxious, but we don't know why. And then we get nervous and we wanted to, we now we want to put a duplex. We think is the reason we're adding fixed. Cause we don't have a quadruplex, but actually that's not very anxious, very anxious because other people are homeless because they're like that. And anxiety, vibration wages going around the vibe, great expression of 60th divine.
Bob Thurman 00:11:42 We share everybody's life. And so we're happy, but most people are a bit allowed to be happy because humans are happy creatures compared to help us animals compared to even vicious predators. You know, we are not basically vicious predators. We can become, you know, because, and we can be more vicious actually than that. Somebody only has their paws and some things and some physical strength because we can invent mechanical tigers and lions and bombs and guns and having those worlds. But we only look into that because we learned to work together and cooperate because we brought up that way. When someone cradled you in their arm and stroked you in college and you had Google guard guide you or your brain wouldn't be working well today. Even you grumbling about maybe later her parents did something to you in life. But, but basically you've been everyone, not just may winced.
Bob Thurman 00:12:44 Everyone is dependent on the kindness of strangers, every human being. So that's the first and last important thing to know anybody who tells you you're supposed to be miserable is misreading. Your brainwashing. You know is something wrong. You're supposed to be happy. If you knew your own reality, you would be even, even to death, wouldn't bother you. You would be happy through death. Happiness would carry on a wave through death, Intuit better life because you're, you're beginning this being you've always been around and much less good forms than you're presently here. And you always will be. And you can be even in better happier forms than you are here, which doesn't mean becoming a God because God's are happier in one way. But they're, their happiness is a little tends to be a little imbalanced and then they get alienated from the others. They don't realize they're still getting vibes from the miserable beings far down below the human, or even sometimes some suffering human.
Bob Thurman 00:13:47 And so they're still no not aware of the true nature, the true interlinked, the true relativity of reality. So I think with what I want to say is what I'm teaching you. And from what I know of Dave, I think what he's teaching you is not really converting you to some religion. So people can, there is he has a beautiful religion. His original source was good, or Nanak the wonderful seek people of India who showed that even in India, that was ribbon between in stress between Hinduism and Islam, that day could be knitted together. And there could be beauty and happiness there. And those days that very wealthy India, even under Islamic Moodle conquest, but with Hindu speaking, still the main mass majority of people, he showed that with the new,this new dispensation from God Sikhism, and as I was kind of merge non-violent and peaceful originally merge between, and they became self defending your strong people, where are your people later?
Bob Thurman 00:14:56 But they had to defend themselves in considered more extremist, rigid, ideological, right, or Hindus Muslims. And yet they still maintain it very powerful in a way there in India and wonderful that your religion. And so some people will do that. And the ad giant data has something of that in it's hard, but like the real, real Indian mystic and the real Indian, you know, spiritual person, they've always been non sectarian in the way. Westerners understand sectarian sectarian is sort of the lethal way that you get divisions in religions that are kind of resell or between religion and non-religion that are Leetal where people feel. The other one who doesn't have the same belief is that it doesn't deserve to live. They're not truly human or something like that. And Indian spirituality from, I think the good influence of the Buddha Mojave era and some of the great Hindu mystics, I think India was always a society that had more of those people.
Bob Thurman 00:15:53 In other words, that went by India because India was wealthier from ancient times wealthy. And those river valleys, as some movie out in India were the wealthiest part of Eurasia. They were the most manageable, most fertile, wonderful river Valley, especially blessed. Here's why people have tried to come in and conquered a lot more so than the Yancy or the yellow river pace and more so than Mesopotamia, more so than the night, actually they were the richest, some Movidiam more so than the dad knew, which was the only really powerful movie. And then you were in ancient times. So, so therefore India was allowed. People were more tolerant and they allowed each other. They were less rigid their allergies, although they had their that. So, so the point is, would we meeting through Sikhism through Buddhism Hinduism? What we needed is for meeting a melting pot older than our early young two centuries old experimental melting pot in America, always very endangered or was some people who don't like it.
Bob Thurman 00:16:58 They want to revert to some kind of rigid identity. I'm white or I'm Christian or I'm Jewish or I'm. Most of them are, I am something I'm atheist. It was tried. It, you know, humans will tend to revert back into some narrower thing. So where does the younger experimental one, but in it's the old one, and it has persisted through a set thousand years of being conquered by outsiders in a way, which is a way of absorbing the outsider sexually and making them nicer and more peaceful, which they did. And, um, you know, they, the majority of the English, Raj finally it's evidence, No In India had, they started to be happier. Why would we love them all? Because they have sound or making people feel like maybe they had a right to be happy or rock and roll, instead of you're supposed to be freaked out, or maybe after debt, if you have the right membership and the right religion, then maybe God will help you, which is the other thing. So you freaked out the whole time, you keep your own energy under control and sort of under suppression and you were pressed against yourself. And then that makes you vulnerable to refresh them from political authority and religion so far. So we're not adding a different one. That's what I'm saying. That's what, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm a professor. I had no kidding digressing and I lived, I was away, but, but we're, we're, we're bringing some culture that has a different, different what they call the inner science or higher psychology and understanding of the mind, but not only the mind also of nature of botany, of ER, you know, of a breathing technique of yoga.
Bob Thurman 00:18:49 How do you use your body yoga as a kind of sport enough to let the, some of this higher culture, but not on the athleticism, exclusively devoted to militarism like football, which is a sport. So then later you grew up enjoying the army. You'll fight in your platoon kill no. Or yoga is a sport of opening, your subtle nervous system of feeling good in yourself, streaming, you know, feel hell break among our psychologists in the 20th century. He's the one who really figured out about, or go into energy, orgasmic energy, the streaming energy, not necessarily normal and some kind of normal huffing and puffing thing, but an internal stream like, or guys, I mean your fingertips or guys, I mean, you're sort of feeling very, you know, melting toward reality and embracing reality to milk toward you in that sense, orgasm, not just particularly that one that you think of.
Bob Thurman 00:19:49 We think of, which is usually old to brief, you know, I know, you know, replete with all kinds of consequences, very old. So, so this is the thing, this is what we are basically talking about. And we were getting it from different traditions in India. We're looking generally at all of them. So what all, so what we're doing is what are we, where are we going? What's the purpose of it? And it's the perfect time. Now everyone is on retreat because it had been sent to our room by mother nature because some drivers said normally the animal kingdom, the network of insects and animals and subtle beings, like what we might think of is spirit season and therefore my disability in. But you know, the more, more indigenous cultures know about them. And they usually have a web that protects the humans from such things like the Corona virus to SAR, as far as the mayor, as far as the BOLO virus, all of these sorts of things that are coming from the animal kingdom, because we were part of the a --nimal kingdom, but we've had these special protections.
Bob Thurman 00:20:53 And also we've lived a little more healthily and intelligently for the most part. And, uh, and so we have immunities to them and some things that we don't, you know, there is that web that we're so busily destroying in the mass extinction where we're killing off all of these species, even invisible ones that we don't know about, then the barriers between these animal viruses and the human being have been broken. And this is just the beginning of waves of this stuff. Until we, we sent them down our pollution and destruction of the planet, we adapt to the much bigger prices that is about to hit that is already, hip-hop sending it's intensifying at an incredibly accelerating rate, which is the climate crisis. The overheating of that was here, you know, not just a warming overheating and pollution of atmosphere and the earth poisoned by chemical and industrial agriculture.
Bob Thurman 00:21:50 And they add the water dreadfully poisoned, burned runoff from industrial and the abuse of animals and the Holocaust to the way we were treating animals, industrially. And, and, uh, the, the temperature is polluted. You could say the hot and cold fire element is polluted. That's, that's the global overheating. And the air is polluted, you know, with all of these, you know, carb, excessive carb, because we've destroyed many too many of the plants that absorbed the carbon that we produce, you know, which they want to do, and they want to help us and recycle it back to us, to be honest with you. Cause we actually adapted to this planet and it likes us when we treated harmoniously lovingly, it locks us back. Inanimate end of this meeting wish the happiness or automatically produce the happiness of those around them because it'd being each being thrives by producing happiness in the neighboring B.
Bob Thurman 00:22:48 And then this is a positive feedback and that's life. So life is this vital vital principle. This life is bliss and happiness. That's what it is. And we are the best adapted being to it actually to fully understand it. The gods are not so well adapted actually from Buddhist point of view, not from originally, but from Buddhist because they're too invulnerable and we are sort of we're right in the middle of where we are very happy. We are here that spark of extreme happiness, but we were also a little bit cautious, you know, and we want, um, we want to really make it complete and we want to bring everybody together in that happiness. So there's no harm anywhere in the universe for anybody. And then we put us, we become increasing. That allows us to be one with Krishna and the two mystics doesn't demand that we remain inferior to him. Shit. She was a Yogi, no smeared with ashes. He has Yogi, uh, you know, was he's the other guns? Didn't like Shiva, if you know that story, you know, cause he told him was too funky. It was like a hippie God. You know, she had old ones long before the sixties.
Bob Thurman 00:23:58 Very few. If you actually look carefully, you know about Sheba Vishnu sometimes as a little more cleaned up, but sometimes now anyway, so, so that's what we're doing. So the first thing is what we are infinite beings. We have beginningless life and we have endless life already. So it's not a question of you find in this life, are we desperate to find it? We're so scared of not existing. That's not what we're scared of. If we didn't exist, it wouldn't be scared. We're scared of pain, existing painfully unpleasantly. That's what we're scared of. And that's why, you know, the, the modern materialists unscientifically have talked themselves into not existing. And they gave that up. They gave up the soul and pretending to themselves and to others that they discovered there wasn't one, which of course they didn't because you, how do you discover nothing? Who did it?
Bob Thurman 00:25:01 Nobody did it. And nobody will do it because it isn't damn. So nobody goes there. Every energy is a continuum. They know that they admit that about matter. Raw conservation of energy matters, never destroyed. It just changes form. And in a way of super subtle matter, you could say, which is our mind, which is kind of entertainment. Say, you know, Einstein discovered the interchangeability in energy and matter. So it is inner. It's not mass, but it's it's material and mind is not mass, but maybe it's very subtle material like energy or maybe there's what they call energy is the bridge between there's more even subtler subtler superstar material that is mine and matter. And they're, non-doing those forms. It would have different views and named in science, but it's not because, because Indian science and science, the inner science, it's not just one dogma theory or that's what all of it.
Bob Thurman 00:25:58 No, but it was so cool. I loved that. And I think all the great teachers in history, not just in Islam, but they all went like that. They were saying like, Oh, I get it now I know. And I'm happy because I know. And I'm so sorry. I can't really quite explain it to you. All I can do is help you find a yoga whereby you also can experience that. And the first step in that yoga is to realize that just having some theory, some sentence, some, some code, some Bon to even, it's not going to do it. You know, Montrez can be helpful codes and theories are helpful. Yes. But there's no absolute theory because reality itself is beyond theory. It's inexpressible. It's so much greater than any theory could be about. If you're really fully open, you experience it yourself and you will realize every cell in your body will be blissful as team because every cell in your body is ready to be blissful.
Bob Thurman 00:26:59 You're healthy is your interview. Yes, actually. And the more you dabbled, the more sickly you are. So, so series that tell you, you're not like that are, are actually hard. In fact, when presented as absolute Dola, in some ways that's occasionally, sometimes it might be good to think, Oh, I could be so much better. So the way I am is not enough that I should be dissatisfied with it. And I shouldn't, I shouldn't accept that. I have to be like this, if it, as long as it goes along with that idea, rather than I'm doomed to be like this. Okay. All right. Even put our talk to Mike, what do you call first choose for a self set for a selfless person, a noble person or an altruistic person, is that the egocentric way of the re the exclusively ego centric way of living and enlightened way of living is going to be on satisfactory or was his first statement. And that's that's to get people to wake up to the altruistic way of living the lovingly of living, the happy way of being, which is quite happy. It's Nirvana. He said specific. That's the real reality that you talked. Okay. So that's the thing. So how do we meditate over these things? Let's do a little tiny mini meditations in the middle of Tokyo. Okay. So now please set yourself to do a meditation right here.
Bob Thurman 00:28:19 And in that meditation, first one is counting your blessings meditation, and don't get into a big philosophical struggle about it. Do not ever have a former wife. Was I ever really, was there ever a swang? Was I ever a DOR? Was I ever a mosquito, whatever don't bother with it, but just imagine that for somehow, that seemed natural to you temporarily, just try it on for size sort of thing. So then you feel a kind of sense of empathy with all the life forms because you were walking in once. Just this try though, don't don't either accept or reject, just think, well, what would it be like if that was the case? And then realize that, and then trying on similarly toward the future, I could be editing in the future also. And she was, I don't think I would want to be the ski Hill again.
Bob Thurman 00:29:15 I don't think I want to be, is I wouldn't even like to be a human being in some terrible situation, you know, and actually too is, I'm a great human being. I at the moment, I'm pretty cool. Maybe I have a virus. Maybe I have a fever. Maybe I'm even looking at possible suffocation and death, but I think the moment that I'm human, at least I I'm understanding this. I am thinking here. I I'm self-aware I I've love in my life. I've had pleasure. I know people who are loving, who love me. And I have, I love the plants. I love the blue sky. I love the grass, you know, so this is really great. And none of them that I've heard about guru Nanak, I've heard about great yogis. You'll get by chat. Another ratio is, I've heard about Buddha. I've heard about, um, Dalai Lama.
Bob Thurman 00:30:06 I've heard about Nagarjuna. I've heard about different people and that's amazing. I've I couldn't even know what they sit thousands of years ago, there was a book or something might not be exact. Might've been a little bit, some texts might've made it misspelling or something, but I got the basic gist about their teaching that I should be able to be happy. So great. So count your blessings. Count them. What a great thing I have compared to all kinds of, I could be turtle, like could be a sickly frog in a polluted stream. I could be like fish helping your red algae bloom in dying, or dragged up in a name. I hook my mouth, no being dragged up the fishermen. You know, I couldn't be what kind of, you know, like all the difficult life forms I could be, but I'm this blessed human and you know, people like Jesus and Buddha and Moses and rabbi Yella and Muhammad and <inaudible> and loud too.
Bob Thurman 00:31:16 And, uh, I <inaudible> Christian on these people. Right? Well, cared for me as a human being at all the people fussing over me. Good. I'm it was that's the first meditation, counting your blessings, realizing what a great opportunity I have as a human being to understand myself, to understand my world, to cultivate my happiness, to even imagine maybe happiness is for on to be dove. Somebody said that, well, that's what seemed like that to me, but maybe occasionally it has. And there's some case that's right. Wow. How can I work on that? What an opportunity. Amazing. So this is thinking of the preciousness. It's like a wish fulfilling in gym of the human embodiment in Daleville Liberty and opportunity, which I have, and, and Buddha thinks you're great. And you are to be congratulated, especially if you, if you have tried on for size, the idea that you were all the different of animals, even dinosaurs and everything.
Bob Thurman 00:32:42 And somehow you worked your way into being this kind of social animal interwoven kind of humor, you know, amazing brain that you have billions and billions of connections here, measuring the billions and trillions of connections in the world, bottomless, opposing, thumb, flexible fingers. You can play jazz on the piano or Mozart Maisie. And then, then you think about how there's no limit to how you can expand your bliss, your understanding, your love, your kindness, and how, what that is really the purpose of your life is what else is there greater than being happy and making others happy? Is there anything better? No way. And making others happy doesn't mean you will make yourself miserable. The happier you make them, the happier you are. So those are good selfish output for being happy, being that's meditating on that. So now the next thing that we look at is this cause that we were scared of it and we live in denial of it. And we think it's healthy not to think about, because if you think about it, you're going to get old depressed. It's important to think about this. And the first thing you think about when you officially, because right after you've counted, your blessings is you think of this called three routes. And we're going to meditate on that for a minute to the fact that it's certain that I'm going to die.
Bob Thurman 00:34:23 That's a root and which when we first are called upon to meditate, that, or we think about it, it would be interesting to do so. We, we, our mind we'll object or we'll debate revolver motive, and it will say, well, I don't want to do that. I know about dive. Everybody knows that. But then if we more deeply do it, we realized we, the act like we don't know it, I'm going to be a dollar. I'm going to practice the job. After I retire, I'll try and make my first million. I'm going to practice the Dharma when I did so that after my children grow up and I'm an empty, I'm going to practice it whenever, you know, in other words, we just assume we're going to go on like, whatever we are endlessly and you know, and our, in the American culture until recently when they're outside, but the body bag folded up ready to bring it in.
Bob Thurman 00:35:13 They added etiquette that you don't mention to the one soon to be departed, then charge has been written. So, you know, then two belated at something. And they said, Oh, this one's not from making. And, uh, of course they're trying more things and the relatives are freaking out. Normally now, sadly in the, in the virus scene, the room is kind of going to go there. They do FaceTime, but, but they there's an etiquette. You don't say that to people, which of course incredibly stupid. Who is it? Someone whose body is giving out. It should be aware of it. And even I can say it, know Steven Devine, if you've ever heard of him, he wanted the great desert sisters, death assistance, you know, death nurses that we've had in our culture since the sixties, I think he's gone himself. Now. He has his son arrived.
Bob Thurman 00:36:01 So carry on. I think, and the lower people, he was creator of a big movement or one of them. And he used to say that the people who accept their fate in a way, and they sort of find happiness within that. They're going to expand that they're going to open out from being in that particular body are the only ones that he knew who had these miraculous recoveries, remissions. And so you had people who fighting madly about it and stressing out more and more often, most often don't make it. He had that experience. So although you haven't seen whether I'm a fighter and I'm a fight my way through, because we have this room, vision of nature in our culture that you have to find with it is it's an enemy and your body never your enemy and the world has never, your enemy cancer even is just in a way your body going berserk.
Bob Thurman 00:36:55 Some aspect of it is gone in such a way that it's growing too much and it's wrecking the host, but it's all good, nice tissue. It's gross goes growth probably comes from too much proteins, probably like the one theory of cancer that I really like beside the toxic food system theory, which is also correct for sure. The other one is excessive protein in our diets. So it's like a protein metabolism, indigestion just like diabetes is a sugar metabolism and digestion eating so much protein that our system can ingest it. So it starts to grow more tissues, proteins, you know, just grows wild. And then the chokes us, no Rex, the liver or whatever pancreas or whatever it's growing, but it's actually excess growth really is what it is. It's what cancer
Bob Thurman 00:37:47 Actually- Turns when they take it out without some dark Mikaelian demonic, Luciferian thing. It says pink tissue. Usually I think, I guess, I don't know, not a search. So, so, uh, Think about death. And when you do combined with having first set the foundation of what a Marvel is being, I real self appreciation January one, not like superficial narcissistic arrogance, but a genuine appreciation of the evolutionary achievement of being human, you and yourself having achieved it really powerful. And then you realize you were going to die for sure. And then you, therefore, I'm going to use this powerful instrument of this human embodiment to the best effect I'm going to use it. It's essence as best I can. And then you add to the second root of deaths. Desperate Lightman is one thing you don't know is when, when you were going to go. And sometimes the young guy before the old, the healthy, seemingly healthy died before the sick, the people in the safe place. If some accident they died before people in a dangerous place, you know, you can never say when it's going to happen, there's all kinds of, you know, life is very wide. Your children are a tenuous in a way, what kind of virus can get you, you know, like an invisible thing. And so then you don't know that. So that makes you a moment of light every moment of your mind, as a precious human being you've ever worn.
Bob Thurman 00:39:27 And then the third one, the route is Q1. And it connects to the thing that I always harp on. Don't know, forgive me if I do. And maybe I don't need to in, in this group, because you were already yogis or with you, or potentially obese and yoga needs. And so maybe I don't need to, but putting away I harp on it for myself too, because I'm brought up in a materialist culture where it was presented to me as a child, as if some authority knew, thank you. I have no soap. You were just, this is your only one life you have. And then when you're 12, you're gone forever. There was no continuum of you. And I, we were told that as if that was the fact that someone had established sentence. In fact, we all talk like that. And then even natively hear about the Dharma or something and you, or we hit it. But men tend tended psychosis in ancient, Mediterranean, classical teachings, not necessarily India or China or Japan or any place, but we hear about doubt. And maybe we have a mystical feeling on some surface level and some ideological over good level, but we have an underlying still feeling like we're just this lump of matter. It's just, this is me. And I don't have nothing will go on. It it'll be nothing til I die. So we fight we fear day and we fear nothing being afraid of nothing.
Bob Thurman 00:40:45 And then maybe subliminally secretly longing for it whenever we were in real pain. So really in a, in, uh, in, uh, in prison and that wrong ideology, which is based on new discovery, science should be based on experiential experimental discovery, experiencing something either of course, material science. Is that measurement or an empathetic experience of the condition of things, probably when you're kind of merging with what you're looking at, what your feeling is that kind of, that's how science proceeds you experience always trumps theory about interpreting the experience. That's the fundamental Buddhist science is like the modern science is like, that's a great thing about modern science, the big dome of theories, that's their own form of priesthood. Do you know of, if he elements you that's cool. So there's no proof about that. Nothing because their root of death is okay, so under subconscious or subliminal level, maybe I am thinking it will be nothing, but I'm trying on for size, this idea that on the beginning of this evolutionary being and an endless war, and I'll be here forever in other, all different forms, I'm trying to emphasize.
Bob Thurman 00:42:04 So if I do, what is it that I take with me? Yeah. When I do die, right? Certain old guy don't know what goes with me, the darn Marcos with me. But yeah, the Dharma that goes with me is whatever I have encompassed in my deepest soul and my deepest heart level. That's the term of that course with me. So in a way, what I've done when I've made mine in my subtlest heart, or my heart is open to it in a way, the openness of my heart and where do I mean by that? Well, for example, if I'm bigger, if I've cultivated by generosity, if I've given great gifts in my life and you read gift doesn't mean that I have to make, have a billion dollars and give a billion dollars over, that would be a great gift if I had a bit, but a great gift is whatever I did have that I thought it was big in grit.
Bob Thurman 00:42:57 And some of that, I gave like a ring I loved or something, and I was attached to it, some Marine. And I gave that to someone, a rubber bracelet that I like again, or it's a piece of clothing. And if I don't have lots of clothing, what did I give would be great, or a meal? I don't have lots of food. Poor people can be greatly generous. And they give something, even though they go a little bit with less, but they do. So what is that kind of giving is letting go of something. And when you develop the pattern of letting go and realize the joy of giving and the feeling of release, when you release, then that creates a pattern, an instinct for opening and releasing within yourself. It's an open-heartedness when you were ethical and sensitive to how, what you do affects other beings, then that means you will open your heart to see things from their perspective and see how they feel about how you're behaving, what you're doing, what you're saying, what you're, how you're gesturing, what you're, what's going on.
Bob Thurman 00:43:55 And then that's an openness, the development of a little bit of empathy and altruism at to being ethical. When someone injures you, you don't freak out and attack them back into immediate retaliation and revenge from tech, but you kind of let it go or you, you, you absorb it, let's say, and you say, Oh, well, they didn't really mean to all, you know, w won't help if I just do it back in the end of this, to it back in it's endless. And so receiving whatever consideration you use your dugong tolerance, or that's an opening, and that opens you rather than close you down, uh, pushed back, you know, right away type of thing. So, so not to mention opening your mind to the magnificence of what reality really is to the ultimate emptiness, to, to relativity. Yes. Which I'll get to later, but these are these foundational things.
Bob Thurman 00:44:44 So that's what goes with you when you die. So that's where the biggest investment, how does priority of your activity in life should be into enriching your deeper soul? So you're so instincts shifting, and that's another amazing thing. Apart, the Indic sciences, what is Hindu C J whatever. It doesn't matter. You know, you're taught by materials. So when you just have needed your things, that's what happens to you. But actually yoga is they have not nature. They don't have to breathe. Ultimate yoga is a Buddha Yogi. They don't have to inhale. If there was not enough air for everybody, they might not inhale. And they might use oxygen to other beings. They just stop and they leave. That would mean they would become too nothing come to an end. They would move into a subtle plane where they don't need that kind of course, material quality of oxygen. Bob Thurman 00:45:42 So these are foundational things. So now let's, now guys, remember you're juxtaposing out on a foundation of the preciousness of your own embodiment, pride, and self appreciation that you haven't counting that blessing and then realized that you were going to lose it just because there's what, what I say to everyone was selfless. Or sometimes he would say, it's soulless. Even he would say that just because he means there's no rigid, fixed identity, like a little bar code. It's always you, you know, like your social security number or something, or a little barcode or a little mini, you made a platinum that hops over to ride in another body or something like that, you know, unchanged from what's the name again? You now know he met his there's no fixed thing, but your continuum, you're your, you are you as a marvelous weave and fabric and thread and, and tapestry.
Bob Thurman 00:46:40 And so it was changing and growing or deteriorate that that's super subtle. So this is, is not, is not, not only not precluded by not having a fixed rigid one, but it is enabled by not having fixed. If it was a fixed thing that never changed, and you wouldn't even connect to your fixed and changing, by the way, it could connect. If you did, if you'd connected to, if it was fixed, it never changed. And you're connected to a fixed and change thing it's changing by itself, or is disconnect and irrelevant to your changing being. Yeah. This is more the area of where self-assess means relativity, basically, really not. Non-existence, that's all I'm saying. I'll get into that in great detail later on today or tomorrow, today, but now we're meditating. So now meditate on your death.
Bob Thurman 00:47:36 It's definitely going to happen, Which you will, when you meditate on these things and where you put before your mind a certain view, certain awareness, but it doesn't hurt you to keep aware of what kind of debate in your mind where some voice might be saying to, or I shouldn't really think about this because it's just nothing. And then you won't have to what you used to when it happens, I won't do anything. I'll just disappear. And where does this thing up on a, this nothing, you know, there is enough, or I'm already enough to hear whatever kind of, you know, your different ideas about what it is will come in and interfere with that. With the real fact of what it is is you are no longer continuing and what you identify as your course, your flesh and blood boggling and flesh and blood and neural network consensus, you know, eyes, ears, nose, Tom, skin, mind it's gone. And you don't know when it could be any moment. And when it goes, what her soul continue. Amazing it. So what, where is your soul continuing? How do you enrich that? How do you give to your soul? How do you nourish your soul? This is, this is the King of all. Yoga is queen of all your,
Bob Thurman 00:49:23 If you taste even a little bit of the meaning of this, We went through it. You realize that this awareness of death and it's potentially immediacy is incredibly alive, nothing morbid about it. It's makes you fibrin with appreciation and intensity of being in the moment, because it's such a magnificent moment because you are a magnificent appreciate Tor. You're a connoisseur of moments. You have these extraordinary sensitivities and a beautiful sound, beautiful vision, and a beautiful sense of taste and a beautiful touch and a beautiful mental picture of all of that. There's a priceless intense. And how do you take with you this openness and appreciating this? How do replace any instinct of fear and machine to push stuff away and being closed off and narrow-minded narrow experienced, and risk-limiting everything because you're frightened of something. How do you, how do you shift that gradually, gently and open more. This is where <inaudible> make a difference.
Bob Thurman 00:51:14 Here. We are now together making the meaning of this moment, join meaning drilling deep down into it, bringing the soul into it. Dean second. Now we're going to say bringing the soul into it. That's that's the job. And so how do we do that? Well, we don't have to only do it. When we meditate on a retreat, we can bring this into daily life because in India, all the traditions shared what they call the ten four path or positive and negative karma of which I call evolution. Actually, karma is not a mystical theory. It's a Darwinian, but not materialistic one, but it means not disclude material, but it's not exclusively materialistic. It's a Darwinian theory of evolution over multiple lives of the individual. That's the difference from Darwin. It's not just species, it's the individual moving from species to species. And the ethics is connected to evolution.
Bob Thurman 00:52:48 It's evolutionary action. So when you're generous at a tiniest way, I mean, when you become aware of your mind, a little stinginess or narrowness or a little grasping this, and you're just open to the little and be a little generous, you don't end up, involve a physical gift of any kind. It's like, maybe you have mental kit, maybe you're judging someone or something. And then you give like the benefit of the doubt to the, how you see that stupid person or something. Right? Right. We have to practice this about our leaders. Now it hit, we're hearing. It's a good chance to that. And we, we, we, we have a lot to judge there. So we give a benefit of the doubt, not to the extent of voting, but some spiritual way and ethical meaning. How does your thinking about how you're interacting with others and try to observe yourself, interacting, being member, member yourself in interactions, and thereby seeing yourself from others perspective.
Bob Thurman 00:53:57 That's the ethic cause ethics and then being tolerant when somebody sits on the toe, yes. Maybe your head was really painful. Please get off. I tell you no, but instead of like one to tampon, they kick them in the ankle or something. Instead of that there's training that would be open. And then speaking truths and not making one feels like a little too high or something, or sometimes, actually quite light is generous and good. Cause it's hard for someone to know something, you know, sometimes save someone's life. Did you see where that guy went? Some people are pursuing some poor person. You say, no, I didn't see. You did secret. You'd say, no, I haven't seen a movie over there. You know, send them on the wrong direction so that poor person can escape. You know? So sometimes you don't want to be, you don't wanna use truth as a bludgeon, but when you're being truthful, you're that means you're opening your reality up to somebody else.
Bob Thurman 00:54:48 So as you see it and not backbiting people and like pitting them against one another, but being diplomatic and making them like each other and being friends with them, by helping them be friends with each other, that's, that's being more open again to they're enjoying a friendship, not exclusively, but he them against each other. So you can have him closer to your friend and could he sweetly to them and find these behave meaningfully to them and not meaning not badly meaninglessly are not being harsh with them. Those four things, those four things become openness in your speech. And then in your mind being Jew being generous and detached in your mind and open mind and not, uh, not, uh, good greedily thinking, I would like this and that and seeing something, or I want one of those. And, you know, it's sort of diminishing that tendency, which we will have naturally, but, but, but diminishing it through as practice, that's opening the soul and not feeling malicious about someone now, Oh, that person said something about me or maybe they don't like me in it and never have any malicious mind, whatever being, having a loving mind or at least a tolerance tolerance on the way to loving. Bob Thurman 00:56:00 And then finally being open-minded about theories and not being fanatic and rigid in conviction, right. About everything or what's righteous and self-righteous, but be open-minded and being aware of that experiences or something more on the more things in heaven and earth that are dreamt of in your philosophy. So mentally open-minded, so all those 10, those are three of mine for speech three of body. Oh yeah. Sexually not ever using it. Harmfully Chris sexuality is where people do naturally open to each other. And it's there for the board of the beautiful mammalian and human teams and where it relates to being born and living inside someone's body for almost a year. And then kindly <inaudible> joined to the trouble, the labor of getting you out of there and then nursing you and taking care of you as if you were still in there for a long time.
Bob Thurman 00:56:57 It's amazing. And so, and then so tragedy is where you kind of really give yourself. So therefore to use that abusively on someone is that sometimes in some traditions it would be dope to read breaking the family, but, but it's not all, it's only, it's any kind of abusive using anybody else has an object in some way or harmfully, any kind of abusive use of sexual energy sexual interaction is, is closed as versus openness in that moment, which biologically one tends to be open, to be even closed and subject object. And me and you different intensifying that there, by being manipulative about it or something that's particularly harmful physically. So killing, stealing sexual abuse, lying, causing dissension, speaking, truth, speaking, sweetly and speaking meaningfully, and then being loving and being detached and generous and being open-minded. It's three of mine. So all those are practice. All of them are practice and all of them are patterns of evolution and they all are ways of practicing at all times. They're like a meditation of living while living--
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The Life Adventures of Tenzin Bob: The Jai Dev Show Interview with Robert A.F. Thurman
Bob’s life story is extraordinary and in this episode of the podcast, he takes us through many of its amazing stories. This two-hour episode is filled with gems of wisdom, […] [more]